Dealing with Dummies: Microagressions and other ‘ish
Working in Corporate Sales and dealing with microagressions can feel like “death by a million papercuts”.
While, I wish we lived in a world where I could show up and teach women how to demand more money, we don’t. Expecting women to show up and thrive at work when they are focused on survival is foolish.
Today on the Pleasurable Profits podcast, you’ll learn how to respond to microagressions from a place of power and humility. Sounds like an oxymoron? Take a listen.
1:19 50th year packed with travel adventures.
09:38 Small businesses can compete on pay when it comes to employee retention, so what should we do?
17:56 - Transgender comedian, Flame Monroe’s powerful advice on dealing with microagressions and attacks
20:25 - Learn the powerful “Whatcha Say Dumbass” tool to help you handle rude people.
Find me on Instagram or LinkedIn or email me at hello@lesliedlyons.com.
As Mentioned In Live Coaching: Learn How Your Boundaries Impact Your Leadership Skills
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Transcript of Live Coaching: Dealing with Dummies
Hey, boss. I am Leslie Lyons, your embodied leadership and sales coach, and this is Pleasurable Profits. This podcast is ideal for owners and leaders of tattoo shops, cannabis businesses, movement studios, sex toy shops, and other industries too often left out of the leadership conversation. If you're looking for no BS approach to defining your strengths and values, designing a business that supports you, and creating a soul driven and, of course, a pleasurable plan for profitability, then let's get started. Hey, party people. It's Leslie. I'm back, and I'm better hey. I don't know the rest of that song.
Leslie:
I guess I should look it up. Oh, my goodness. It seems like I have not done a podcast in forever, but I promised I'd get back to podcasting at least twice a month is my goal. I'll tell you why. Twice a month, as opposed to weekly, is the new goal. Post in a little bit, but how y'all doing? You've been good? I've been amazing. Thank you for asking. I have been all over God's green earth since the spring.
Leslie:
Since March, to be exact. For those of you who don't know, I turned 50 this year. Well, last year I turned 50 and I made the declaration that 50 would be my year of travel. So as I'm winding up my 50th year, I started my travel with a trip to Brazil, and I'm ending it with a trip to Costa Rica. I've been all over the place. If you follow me on Instagram, you've seen a couple of snippets. But if you know me, you know that I'm not a person who puts every single thing I do on social media, but just let it be known that I've had a time. What do they say? What do the kids say? We had a time last night.
Leslie:
Well, I had a time in 2023, baby. From 2022 to 2023. That year. 50, baby. I had a time. And so I got a lot of time, though, to kind of really think about my current business models. I sold a business, I've restructured a business. I'm getting ready to do some other stuff, but I really got some clarity around where it is that I want to go.
Leslie:
And so that brings me to why I will only be doing a couple of episodes a month. Because your girl is following the leading of the Lord and going back to seminary. That's a very long story. I've written about it on Instagram. I was going to say I wrote about it on Facebook, but I shut down my Facebook page. That was a part of this transition and preparing to go back to graduate school and really just focus on doing what I know the Lord has designed me to do. And so I ain't going to have a whole lot of time. That's what it comes down to.
Leslie:
I'm not going to have a whole lot of time for shits and giggles and just rants and the sorts of things, at least not for the next year and a half because I'm going full time. So I'm like, okay, what's important for you to do? What type of clients fire you up to work with? Because I'm not independently rich. I got some change, I got some assets that's for show, but I am not what I call work optional yet. Like, I still need to bring in income, right? On this last trip I was on, which was just a couple of weeks ago, I really just lasered in on what clients will I work with the rest of this year, but more importantly going into next year. So you'll be hearing about some changes in that regard. But anywho one of the things that I have ramped up and one of the types of clients that I know I enjoy working with and it also pays me really well is corporate sales clients. So typically that looks one or two ways. Number one, it could look like me working with a sales leadership team.
Leslie:
So that looks like a sales director or CRO bringing me in to talk about sales confidence. I don't train on sales strategy because I believe there's a lot of great trainings in that space already. But what I do know as a sales professional myself is that you can have all the amazing sales strategy trainings in the world, but if you don't have the confidence to implement that, you're just banging your head up against the wall. And sales teams, literally the turnover is ridiculous when you're managing a sales team. So I really want to help those sales leaders not only identify female talent, but make sure that they're nurturing them to not only become better sellers, but to become better leaders. And I know from my background in Poland and movement and helping women develop confidence that that don't just happen through some scripts and shit. Okay? So that's one bucket that I'm in, the second bucket that I'm moving into now is really working with what I call rising leaders. And so typically they are sales professionals and small business owners who know that they want to do more, know that they need to scale, know that they want to step back from the day to day, the grind of what they're doing and move really more into a visionary role, into more of a supervisory role, into an oversight role, helping them develop the sales and leadership confidence that they need for that.
Leslie:
And then also helping those small businesses in particular not try to retrofit corporate strategies into your little five person organization. It kills me when I see people who come from traditional corporate backgrounds. Like, I have one client who worked for Know, the So Powder people, and it's a part of Procter Gamble, if I'm not mistaken. I'm also getting old thinking about it. But Tide is not owned by tide is owned by a much larger organization. I think it's procter gamble. But she works in the Tide division and she worked past tense in the Tide division. And so now she's got a business where she actually runs a couple of laundromats.
Leslie:
Not a couple, five. Several laundromats. And when dealing with her staff, she tried to take what she learned at Tide and put that into her laundromat business. And that shit fell flat on his face. And she was bumping her head because she was like, man, I was a really good leader for Todd. I was damn near C suite. Like I made all this money. I had all these teams and they loved me.
Leslie:
And why is this shit falling on his face now? Why can't I manage ten people when I manage 250 people? And what I had to help her to understand is that the reason that you did so well in Tide is because you have multilayers of support, my guy. Okay? You have multilevels of support, SIS. So there is this hierarchy of support that don't exist in your laundromat business right now. It's you and your husband. And so all of those layers of support are no longer there. And here's the truth of the matter. And people really get pissed off when I say this, but I don't care about that type of stuff. I got to tell you.
Leslie:
The truth is that you ain't paying these people enough to be loyal to you, okay? When you were in corporate, herself included, myself included, there's a little something called golden handcuffs. What are golden handcuffs? I ain't trying to be kinky, y'all. Golden handcuffs or golden bird cage. I heard that recently from somebody I'm like. All of these things basically say that you're making enough money to make you tolerate this shit, okay? Because if you quit, it is going to significantly impact your lifestyle. Guess what? Paying somebody minimum wage $15 an hour. And you all know I ain't one of these people. Pay people living wages out of your small business that only makes $500,000 a year, you should pay your secretary $70,000.
Leslie:
You know I ain't about that shit. But I am saying that the reality is paying someone minimum wage, minimum wage jobs were never meant to support families. What they were meant to do is to be a stepping stone to something else. So what does that mean for you as a small business owner and a leader? If you're paying someone money and you might be saying, well, I pay my people $30 an hour. Yeah, but they work 3 hours a fucking week. They work 10 hours a week. What you going to do with $300, child? What you going to do with it? Nothing. Like, seriously.
Leslie:
So it's just really something to think about that if you're paying somebody $300 a week versus someone who makes $300,000 a year, I think you're going to get a little bit more loyalty. I'm putting that in air quotes. You all can't see me, but you're going to get a little bit more loyalty from someone who makes $300,000 a year because they've built a lifestyle around that, rather than someone who makes $300 a week, who is just like, I'm doing this shit until I can find something that can sustain me. Right now, I'm not going to go deep into that, because I'm going to try and keep these podcasts short, too. But at some point, I want you to know that just because you don't pay someone a living wage doesn't mean that you need to tolerate low performance. Maybe I'll make that the next episode. Yeah, I will. I'll make that a note.
Leslie:
But anywho so that's kind of who I'm working with these days. They fall into those two buckets, corporate sales teams who are looking to retain their female talent, grow, emerging leaders. And then I'm working with small business owners who are looking to step away from the day to day grind. And in order to do that, they've got to cultivate some leaders. So how do you find your stars in a sea full of part timers? So there's that. So that's what your girl got going on. But now that we up to date, let's get to what I want to talk about today. So in working with these corporate clients, one of the things I found was that things that I thought we had moved past, we ain't moved past, y'all.
Leslie:
And I'm just shocked. And if you work in a corporate environment, this ain't shocking to you. But honestly, I'm like, with all the dei, all of the freaking training around emotional intelligence and all the things that come in corporate spaces, I really thought they would be better environments for women. Y'all, I've been out of corporate now as an employee well over 20 years at this point. It's been like 26 years. I have been out of that space for a long time. So looking at it from the outside, reading blogs, reading articles, seeing stuff on LinkedIn, I honestly thought, man, it's a better environment for women in corporate spaces. It seems like the same shit that I was dealing with, honestly, 26 years ago.
Leslie:
It has not moved the needle much. Now we celebrate every move in the needle, and there are some great companies out there doing some great things and have created some great environments, but they are far outweighed by toxic corporate environments. And so I just want to talk to women about making money. That's my gifting. That's what I do. It's really what I'm passionate about. But what I was finding is, let me just talk to you about how to get the bag, how to get the confidence to ask for the sale, how to detach from outcome so you can bounce back from rejection, all of the things that you need as a sales professional to be able to do. But that stuff wasn't sticking, and I was like, man, what is going on? So it just caused me to dig a little bit deeper.
Leslie:
And so when I started talking to these women, what I found out was it's hard to focus on thriving when you are still being oppressed. Like, when you're being oppressed, you can't vision, you can't focus, you can't put the drive behind what you need to get done because you're fearful. You're afraid. You don't know where the next blow is going to come from. So while we've got books like Lean In, folks are like, what happened when I lean in and I get punched in the face? Not literally punched in the face. I'm not talking about folks getting hit and violence in the workplace. I ain't talking about that. But I'm saying a gut punch put baby in the corner kind of a feeling.
Leslie:
Like, how many times you going to lean in and get slapped? It doesn't become worth it for some women. And so one of my clients described it this way. She was like, I am faced with so many microaggressions because this client is not only a woman, but she's also a woman who's over 40, and she's also a black woman. So she's got all these intersections that she's dealing with in terms of marginalization. And she was like, I am faced with microaggressions daily. She like, sometimes hourly. And she was like, Leslie, you know what? I'm fucking tired. She's like, These things that you're giving me to do, they're great.
Leslie:
I don't doubt that they would work. What I doubt is my capacity to do it. And initially, when I heard that, I was like, capacity. You talking about your mental capacity? Like, you don't think you could do this? You smart as fuck. What do you mean? That's what I thought initially. But thank goodness I asked the question and kept listening. She was just talking about her emotional capacity. Like, I just don't have the energy to do these things because it's being used to just survive in this space.
Leslie:
And when she said this phrase to me that I'm getting ready to share with you guys, it was, like, mind blowing for me. She was like, working in this office is like a death by 1000 paper cuts or a million paper cuts. And I was like, oh, my gosh. What a metaphor. What a visual, y'all. Can y'all take a moment and think about that? You ever had a paper cut? Paper cuts ain't big. You don't bleed all over the place, but they hurt like hell. And think about you being cut over your entire body from top of your head to the sole of your feet, the pain would eventually kill you.
Leslie:
I was like, damn. Damn, what a visual, right? And that just brought me there with her at such an empathetic space that I wasn't at initially when we started our conversation, in all honesty. But I saw that and I was like, man, we need to have a different conversation. And so one of the microaggressions she shared with me, and I've kind of changed it up so that she won't feel exposed, because I know she listens to this podcast was she shared how when she goes to make presentations, because she's in a leadership role at this company, how she goes to make presentations, and she shared this one specific incident. So she went to make a presentation about a new initiative. You all don't need to know details of it. Just know that it was a new initiative that she went to present before some senior level leaders inside of her company. And one of her male colleagues said, as she just kind of introduced herself, set the scene and the tone for what the meeting was going to be about.
Leslie:
As she was talking, she wasn't even finished. Homeboy interrupts her and basically says, great sighted. We're here. I'm just hoping that this is going to be short, because we all know how long winded you can be. Ha ha. Hail Joe. Okay. Like, ha ha ha.
Leslie:
But that's what he know. She's talking about it, setting it up. He interrupts to say that she's long winded. That's a chip in your armor. Like, that's a like that's a know. And the ha ha. Don't soften the shit, right? And when she said that to me, I was like, man, Leslie, how would you deal with that? How have you dealt with that? What would you do if somebody did that to you? Well, y'all know Michelle Obama. Michelle Obama said, when they go high when they go low, we go high.
Leslie:
Well, I heard this comedian named Flame Monroe say something that I've adapted. When a motherfucker go when a motherfucker go low with me, I'm going West Side of Chicago, okay? When you go low with me, I'm going to pop you in your face. Like, that's my initial reaction. Excuse me, sorry, but that'll go over well, you might get arrested and go to jail, and orange ain't my color, so I had to think for a minute. So I can't hit you, right? Like, I can't cuss you out because of the role I'm in. But what could I say? What would I do? And I said, you know what? I use this tool now, and it's actually a play on something positive, which I learned by being an ICF Credential coach. Boom. Is that one of the coaching tools you have is mirroring, okay? So basically, you just restate what a person says to you.
Leslie:
So, number one, you acknowledge that you heard them, but it also gives them an opportunity to hear themselves, because a lot of times when we're so close to a situation or we don't really have the emotional bandwidth to step away and look objectively at something, you as a coach can be a mirror to that person. Well, you know me. I'm sassy. I'm hood. I'm all the things so I took that concept, and I turned it into a tool. Like, do you hear yourself, dumb ass? That's what I call it. Do you hear yourself, dumb ass? So I told her, I said, when he called you long winded using that tool, immediately repeat what he said. Hey, Joe, did you just call me long winded? And then you pause, just like I did there.
Leslie:
You pause. So you put this pregnant pause in it, this awkward pause after restating, what he said. It's not awkward for you, but your desire is to make it awkward for him, because people say stuff, and a lot of times, people just skirt over what they say. But that pause allows that dumb comment to sit in the room just for a moment. And we're talking about a 510 2nd pause. We ain't talking about a minute of you just staring them down, rolling your ass, sucking your teeth. But a nice five second pause between the dumb statement allows him to rethink what he said. But more importantly, the other people who are sitting in the room can hear the stupid comment as well.
Leslie:
And then after you let it sit in the room, you state who you really are. So in her case, it's like, did you just call me long winded? Pause. I prefer to say that I'm detailed and very thorough. And so being that I know that about myself, we don't jump into this, because I got this handled. Let's go. So you basically state the dumb ass comment. Did you hear yourself, dumb ass? You pause. Don't just leave the dumb ass statement about you out in the air.
Leslie:
You counter that with who you really are, and then you assert your confidence. I got this shit. It's handled. I got this. Now you sit down and listen, sir. You sit down and listen, son. And I'm going forward. Man, I can't tell you how many times this has saved people from getting karate chopped in the throat.
Leslie:
So is this something you think you can do? Is it something you think you could do? Hit me back and let me know. I hope you try it. I hope you try it. It's a shame. I wish there were no microaggressions. I really do. I wish there were no dumb people in our lives. But the truth of the matter is, I've been dumb before.
Leslie:
I'll be dumb again. I've made microaggressions. I'll make them again. None of us are perfect, y'all. So this ain't just talking about other people. It's also a call for you to evaluate how you communicate with people. Don't be a dumb ass. Hit this podcast.
Leslie:
Post it on. IG tag me and hashtag, don't be a dumb ass. This is your motivational pep talk for the day. All right. All right, y'all. This went on a little bit longer than subsequent episodes will go on. But, hey, I just got back. I ain't been here in months, y'all.
Leslie:
Knew it would be long. So anyway, my love, I appreciate your time. I always say your time is your most important asset, even more important than money. So I never take it for granted when you spend time with me. Hit me up. You have any questions? You have any feedback, any cries of outrage, the only place you can find me these days is at Leslie D. Lyons on IG. My DM is open.
Leslie:
Until next time. I will talk to you soon. Be good, be good, be good. Avoid dumb asses as much as you can, and we'll talk soon. Grace and peace.